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1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	Jill Giegerich	.

M. All the more reason. There's no... There's nobody...

You mean there's no one who falls like a cynic.

M. Yeah exactly.

Yeah. Well okay, given that there are certain setups, which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you're cognizant of that. If you're a member of western civilization, there are certain ideas instilled in you, certain ideas of beauty and quality and so on and so forth. And that's a given. And I think that Rembrandt certainly upholds all those basic tenets of classicism. And that's like an orb in our head. But that's okay. So the thing and the orb come together. (Both laugh) I don't think that's a problem. I mean there are certainly some things that have been held up as where that thing and that orb are supposed to come together. Like the Mona Lisa for instance. And I remember when I actually got to see the Mona Lisa and I thought, "Am I missing something here?" I did one of those. That did not hook up with that particular orb in my head. So maybe it's some dance between the eccentricities of the individual and the particular instilled ideas of beauty, not to mention the politics of, and not to belittle the politics of why it's hanging on that nail. I mean it begs the same question today. We certainly know there are hundreds, probably not thousands, but maybe hundreds of very good artists running around in this country. But only a few of them will get the media attention that will get them the hook in the gallery. So what is that about? It might have something to do with the quality of their work fitting in to the particular needs of the machine that's grinding itself out today. And it might have something to do with sexual aggression... I heard this great term the other day, 'sexual aggressiveness'. A friend called me and was lamenting that she hadn't gotten into a gallery that this other woman had and that her friends told her it was because the other woman was 'sexually aggressive'. And I was completely confused by this term. I said what does that mean? My friend said it means "She's really out there, she's really out there for her work." Yeah, but what does that have to do with sexuality? Oh, she's a beautiful woman, too. And so maybe Rembrandt had his own... maybe he fucked the right person. I don't know. There's certainly some political reason why he's hanging on the nail. But there might also still be something really wonderful about his work. Just, it hooks into the western mind at a particular level of entry. But it must be very relative. There are all kinds of mind sets. I look at Australian aboriginal traditional work, and I haven't a clue what's going on. I can't enter it. And I'm sure that there must be reasons why some are better than others, or functions better than others in that tribal society as it exists today. But I don't have the plug in my head that it can plug into. But I certainly did that day, for that painting, for the Water Lilies. And maybe it was that day, maybe it was something I ate.

M. Okay, let's say it was. That means you were susceptible. What's wrong with that?

Well, nothing's wrong with it unless it leads me to take destructive action. I think susceptibility is not necessarily a terrible thing. Susceptibility doesn't kill people, people kill people. (laughs)

M. What am I arguing for? I'm arguing for being more naive, actually.

For being susceptible?

M. When I was a kid I was pretty exposed to all the New York museums on a regular basis. I could walk through it and I can remember very clearly what I liked and what I didn't like. I had strong reactions then. I was opinionated, because I didn't know shit.

Oh would I have loved to walk through the gallery with a little Mitchell Syrop. (laughs)

M. I hated Guernica. I always hated Guernica.

I hate Guernica too.

M. Still do. When that guy spray painted it...

That is the dumbest painting I have ever seen.

M. Yeah and starting from the time I first got any art education, the fuss that was made over that just completely... because I saw that painting from the time I was very young, many times, and I never changed my mind about it. I haven't changed my mind about it to this damn day. (laughs) But so okay I had that suspicion, that built-in suspicion. But I'm not sure that's a good thing. You know, when you see really turgid work. I mean, you know what I'm talking about? It's like work that's working really hard to exist. It's the mirror image of a viewer who is like that, the resistant viewer. Like, "No! I will not come. I will remain above this. I will remain aloof, distant and critical." You know, there's that whole kind of work where artists take on that attitude, that kind of smug protected attitude. And then they produce work in that mode, in that mentality.

Well the fact remains that there's still pleasure to be gotten from the few moments when, for whatever reason, you're ability to stay distant from the work is attacked and dissolved. And I don't know, I don't think it matters very much to me why that happened, or how it happened. Or even if I went back and it didn't happen again. That seems like something ... one of the few great pleasures that living life as a human being has to offer. Living life especially as a western human being. I mean if you're going to walk around with yourself in your head talking to yourself all the time, you might as well give yourself at least the pleasure of the few moments when you shut the hell up. And not spend the next few years quacking on about why you shouldn't have allowed that to happen, or it was only this or it was only that.

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